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Kirill, 24, worked for a homeless settlement in the Moscow region. He does not support the policies of President Vladimir V. Putin and vehemently opposes the invasion of Ukraine. However, when Putin announced an army call-up in September after suffering setbacks in the war, Kirill was among those called.
At the time, the podcast “The Daily” was talking to Kirill, who was hiding to avoid being handed over his documents. He then fled Russia to avoid conscription. A new episode of the podcast checks with him what has happened since he left. your country.
transcript
This transcript was created with speech popularity software. Although it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the audio of the episode before quoting this transcript and email transcripts@nytimes. com if you have any questions.
This week, “The Daily” looks back on some of our favorite episodes of the year and hear what happened since they first aired. Since he left the country, it is Friday, December 30.
IT IS OK. Tell me your call, your first call because I know the sensitivities, your age and where you live.
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
My call is Kirill. I am 24 years old. And I in Moscow Oblast.
So, Kirill, going back to the beginning of the war when Putin first ordered the invasion of Ukraine on February 24, take me to that moment in your life. What did you do when you saw that?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
On the 24th I woke up not very early, a bit as usual, around 11 a. m. m. My friend, in the morning, said that the war had begun. If I am fair to you, do not forget that daybecause I did not fully perceive and perceived the magnitude of what had happened and how terrible everything would be.
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I went home that day and started talking to my parents.
I didn’t need to communicate about it with my parents because I don’t communicate with them about political issues. We have a lot of other things in mind, and I like to avoid things with them.
My parents are precisely part of that really poisonous component of the audience that is actually pro-war, who puts Z stickers on the back of their car. It’s not the people.
It’s hard for me to describe you fully, but I’ll say that those are other people who try very hard not to notice the anarchy around them.
And I went up to them and said, it’s a catastrophe.
There is no explanation as to why in the world one country attacks another. That is so transparent to me.
And they said, what do you mean by war?
Is it you who deceive us and it is you who knows the truth?
Have you argued?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Yes, we had a very bad discussion. I love my parents. That is clear. We explained our position and never returned to the subject because we understood that we only had other points of view.
That’s how time started to pass, yes, and in essence I’ve become a user who constantly updates the news on my phone.
What it was was that there was a war. I can see it happening.
But in the first 3 months, I didn’t feel it at all.
It has nothing around me.
And that’s what worried me most, the contrast.
A few years ago, a well-known rock musician said this about the war in Chechnya. He said the most disturbing thing is to be at war and to see dust and death and get on a plane and go back and land in Moscow and see other people walking. the streets and young people betting in the gyms of the jungle and other people buying.
The scariest thing is that other people continue to live without feeling the pain that is being caused in this other place. It wasn’t about our lives.
Where were you when you heard about this so-called partial mobilization?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
That was two days ago. I woke up 15 minutes before I woke up and saw the news. I saw the news on the president’s face.
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I saw the banner with small flashes next to it telling me that it was important, that it announced a partial mobilization.
And I understood that given my health, my age and my former military service, I met the criteria 100%.
How were you at that time?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I guess I just felt this feeling of resignation, a kind of futility. Like, I only step to move to work, but step to be called to this task and go to war.
What is the feeling in your heart?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
None.
I felt this vacancy – no anger, nothing.
I just thought, what do I do now?
Because I knew at that moment that war had nevertheless come to me.
‘Ll.
Kirill, you talked about your military service. How did you serve in the army?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I stayed there for a year.
When I graduated from my technical school, I drafted. And he had no money to survive.
The only other people who go into the army are the ones who can’t survive.
It is a selection to pass and protect the homeland. It’s about poverty and the preference to feed their families.
So, going back to when Putin first announced the mobilization, what did you start doing?Which came first?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
First of all, I started where I can pass to pass to pass out, where I can pass to pass out without a visa and without much cash because I don’t have a lot of cash.
Physically, I was starting to feel bad. I had a headache.
I was very scared. I won’t hide that from you. I’m terrified.
Then I sat up, breathed, held my breath, and got to work.
I was given there, and there were several other young people who were in the same category as me. We sat there. And we drank coffee in combination and laughed a little and just talked about it, and it felt better.
We were talking about the available data, who was going to come out, what we were going to do.
As the hours went by and I texted with my friends and watched the news, it was very transparent how many lies had been told. They said they would not recruit students.
And we’ve noticed that they called a lot of academics. They said they would not recruit other people in their fifties and sixties. And we saw that they called many other people in their fifties and sixties. I was actually going to everyone.
Then I began to feel insecure that they would come looking for me now.
And I saw the announcement of the news of a partial mobilization, all those other people fainting to demonstrate.
[VOICES]
I tried to go to the demonstration, but I stayed at home because I was very afraid that if they beat me – if the police beat me – they would take me to my newsroom.
[Song of the Crowd]
How are you on that?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I’m not going
It’s as if I’ve just dropped out of my mission, as if to say, okay, young girls, young men, you who are not old enough to write, faint and say your word and say it in my name.
I feel like I’m dramatizing that. I need to dramatize that.
Ta, ta, ta, Kirill.
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Oh, no. I don’t need you to think I’m in some kind of horrible scenario. It’s just that many other people are on this stage now.
I’m hot I feel good. I am a roof.
What I’m feeling right now has nothing, nothing, of how other people who are at war feel. I don’t need there to be a comparison.
Then, two days after Putin’s announcement, my father got a call. One of his friends at the police station called him. And he said there was a summons for his son tomorrow, for the next day, and that he would bring it.
I had this feeling of helplessness. I didn’t know what to do.
And I’ve been in the paintings for a few days.
Are you living in the paintings now?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Yes, I at work.
Are you sleeping there? Do you brush there? Do you shower there?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Yes, order all of the above. And it’s not that complicated because I work in an organization that caters to the homeless, so there are a lot of amenities and things we have for other people.
I’m hiding here because I don’t need to be in a position where other people recognize me, and other people can come and give me that draft opinion.
The way it’s worked is that other people get those things on the streets, during demonstrations, when they leave the subway. And that’s all I’m trying to avoid. So I’ve been here at work, and I don’t think they’re going through to locate me or catch me if I don’t faint.
There were a few other people at my company who met the draft criteria. We have put some plans in place, which we are now trying to achieve. Our colleagues seek to gather all our documents and locate embassies and other places where we can just potentially approve and get a visa to pass out.
I’m incredibly grateful to them. But I perceive that this variant is unlikely, that it will not happen.
So if that doesn’t happen, and I don’t think it will, then the time we’re thinking about is going to the border with Kazakhstan. And we hope the border doesn’t close.
When would you move to Kazakhstan?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
So I’ll probably be in this workspace that I’ve been in for a few days until September 20th. But if I get a visa, there is danger because they are looking for other people at airports. My passport at the airport.
So airports are not places.
At exercise stations, others even less. And the least, the verification, is done through the car.
Are you making plans to stop by car?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Probably yes.
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] What is the Kazakh border like?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Right now I’m looking. I’m watching. It’s about 20 hours of travel.
That’s a long way.
But again, there is a complication. I don’t have a car.
So maybe that would mean locating an organization that goes or asks to take me to the border.
So far, I have no features in front of me, but there are some here. My father. . . My father has a car with him.
Kirill, do you want to ask your father?Would you ask your father to take you to the border?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I asked them to come see me on the weekends. It’s probably Sunday. And I will ask them if they would be in favor of this option.
They have a hard time understanding the risks. They only see what is said on television, namely that young people will not be sent to war. They will receive training first. So it’s hard for me to risk going to prison and possibly not make it to this draft.
What will you do with them?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I will tell you that I don’t need to die just for doing this absolutely silly thing.
I will do it in a very practical way, and I hope we can localize a non-unusual language.
[MUSIC IN PROGRESS]
Kirill, if your parents refuse or just say what they see on TV, does it hurt you that you can’t locate a common language, even when it comes to your own life?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
No, it’s not painful.
If I, too, had been imbued for so many years with the propaganda that we have external enemies, that we will have to be vigilant, I think I would probably have the same opinion.
If it doesn’t pass to Kazakhstan, what will happen?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
That is if I get arrested. If that happens, I will have to hide somewhere on Russia’s internal borders.
Kirill, when you think about waging war on the call of Russia, dressed in a Russian uniform in Ukraine, when you think about having to do it, how does it make you feel?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
This is the scariest idea of all.
I already have that it is greater to go to prison than to go out to this surely crazy and senseless war.
Why is it such a scary idea for you to be in Ukraine in a Russian uniform?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
It’s not even about worrying about being killed, it’s about killing someone.
It’s the horror.
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I said, how are you? He said, I’m fine. I just haven’t slept much and I don’t think very well right now. Oh my God, Kirill.
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I had those plans. I had vacation plans. I had planned to read.
I had plans for the next few weeks. And now I obsessively watch the news and check how to get to the Kazakh border.
I had those plans.
It’s a very, fun feeling almost for me now because I feel at home here.
And I feel satisfied here in this work. I’m not very sociable. And they became friends with me. And I need to stay.
I can’t describe it. I can focus on the only thing I know: that I have to leave this position and that I have to leave the other people closest to me in my life. But I feel like it’s going to be a long weekend: I’m going to leave, and then I’m going back. And I’ll be back here at the homeless shelter, talking to the residents.
[MUSIC IN PROGRESS]
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Two days after our conversation, Kirill texted me. He says he has heard that the borders will possibly close soon and that he will have to leave now. So prepare a small bag: your flashlight, your headphones, your favorite t-shirts.
Buy Snickers and bottled water for the road. His father can’t take him, so Kirill makes the decision to take the bus with a friend. They travel at night.
When they succeed at the border with Kazakhstan, they locate a line of cars waiting to cross that stretches for 10 kilometers. So Kirill and his friend locate a checkpoint where they can walk.
He sent me a picture of the crowd. Thousands of other people are waiting.
Many of them are young men in sweatshirts, with hoods on to withstand the cold. He recorded a video of a border guard taunting the crowd, insulting them for leaving Russia.
[VOICES]
And then stop texting. For 20 hours, I don’t hear anything.
Then, on Wednesday night, I get a message.
“Sabrina, hello. It’s all right. I crossed the border.
Some of the guys who were with me were allowed out. So far I have no local phone, almost no internet. And for now I only answer to my family and friends.
After the break, I call Kirill to tell him what has happened in his life in the months since he fled Russia.
‘Ll.
Kirill? Kirill, can you hear me?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Kirill, despite everything I can hear you. So the last time we spoke, Kirill, you had just crossed the border into Kazakhstan. Tell me what has happened since then.
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I was able to spend about a week in Kazakhstan, then moved more to Uzbekistan.
The scenario on the border between Russia and Kazakhstan very, very tense.
Many Russians had come to Kazakhstan.
And the effect of that is that apartments, rents, had gone up two or three times.
When we tried to cross, my friend and I met two other people and friends.
The 4 of us paid 5000 rubles to take us to the next city and 5000 rubles for accommodation for a while.
5,000 rubles is just under $100. We thought we probably had to move away from border towns and locate a hostel or something more internal in Kazakhstan to make it cheaper.
The next day we bought bus tickets and drove about 150 kilometers into the interior of Kazakhstan.
We had made a reservation at a reasonable hotel online. But once we arrived, we were told that our booking had been cancelled and there was no position in the hotel.
It was around 20:00. And we didn’t know what to do.
So we started calling every number we could find on the internet, anywhere we could locate. All full.
So we thought about what we were looking for to do more.
My colleague in Moscow in my homeless organization, he was from Uzbekistan. And his mother still lived there and said, if he ever needs help, he can stop by to see her in Uzbekistan, and she will help him formulate his documents and do anything. it is necessary. So we made the decision to move to Uzbekistan.
We live in a three-bedroom apartment. There are five of us in the apartment. So we pay $500 a month for all that. And it’s smart for our budget.
When we arrived, we didn’t know where to buy food. And there were small local stalls run by Uzbeks, mom and dad, who cooked for you, like street food.
The other people were incredibly cool and very generous.
And it is, as you know, a Muslim country. There is a lot of goodwill towards visitors.
The other people were great and willing to help.
Kirill, the last time we talked about your parents, wondered if they would accept your decision to leave and if maybe your father would take you to the border, which would happen. What’s the scenario with your parents now?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Our dates have become friendlier.
Before, we saw others one and both days and had those discussions about our surely opposite views.
Now we are so far apart that when we communicate, and the war has obviously affected my life a lot, the only issue we communicate about is how I feel and how they feel and how we feel we get along.
My courtship with my parents is one of the vital points that supports me and probably the one that I did not appreciate enough.
It is thanks to them that I can feel absolutely comfortable and confident in myself living my life in Tashkent. They helped me financially, financially.
Oops, Kirill.
My father came to see me in Uzbekistan.
It’s about 3 weeks after I left.
just arrived And we walked around the city and just talked.
I want to think about how you’re feeling right now, how you’re doing. I mean, it was a massive replacement in your life, leaving your country, at least for now, and starting to live this guy again. life in Uzbekistan. Are you glad you left?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
I am very pleased not to leave, but to be far from all this mobilization, from everything that is happening.
But after being away for about two weeks, I thought, okay, maybe I can come back. Maybe I can come back.
It’s so sad for me to be so far away from my job, from the other people I love there and from my parents.
But I signed up for many channels and news sites. And I read a lot. And now I realize that it’s a little naïve to think that maybe I’ll come back in January.
What do you mean by naïve?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Because there is more and more news saying that whether it is in December or January, there will still be a wave of mobilization.
I think it will last a long time. It’s going to end in January, so it gives me a heavier heart.
Are you sad?
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
Yes. Sad.
IArray needs to go back. I just need to go back to pass.
But I just need to say that I have a house. I have a living position, unlike Ukrainians whose homes were destroyed. I’m lucky.
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
[SPEAKING RUSSIAN]
[MUSIC IN PROGRESS]
Today’s episode was produced by Lynsea Garrison and Will Reid. Edited by Michael Benoist and Anita Badejo, it features original music by Dan Powell and Marion Lozano. It was translated by Anastasia [INAUDIBLE] and designed by Chris Wood and Corey Schreppel.
Our theme song is through Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk from Wonderly. Special thanks to Valerie Hopkins and Anton Troianovski. That’s it for “The Daily. “I’m Sabrina Tavernise. Thank you for hearing this beyond the year and happy new year. See you on Tuesday 2023.
[MUSIC IN PROGRESS]
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